><eith Lofstrom <[log in to unmask]>
>*Subject:* Way Off Topic - HEP Network Symphony Orchestra
...
>AFAIK, we are still in the middle of Long Shutdown 2,
>with the Large Hadron Collider /not/ sending terabytes
>of experimental data through the dedicated HEP network.
>The speed of sound across a symphony stage is 500,000 times
>slower than bits on an optical fiber. In theory, musicians
>could be connected through the HEP network, spread out over
>5000 kilometer distances compared to the 10 meter distance
>across a symphony stage. Distances are smaller than that
>between groups of European or North American cities.
On Wed, Dec 23, 2020 at 08:45:47AM -0600, P. Larry Nelson wrote:
> Back in July, I happened upon this very interesting article:
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.npr.org_2020_07_14_891091995_playing-2Dmusic-2Dtogether-2Donline-2Dis-2Dnot-2Das-2Dsimple-2Das-2Dit-2Dseems&d=DwIDAw&c=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA&r=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A&m=cnXMSULf-rJAMD-8jQQEuyEdx7TC5_ji_mldE_aVb7s&s=nsS78jBB39IXzLwKYV87GfD5wWwCHJFA5V3lLnyAJOg&e=
>
> The mechanism involves JackTrip (https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ccrma.stanford.edu_software_jacktrip_&d=DwIDAw&c=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA&r=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A&m=cnXMSULf-rJAMD-8jQQEuyEdx7TC5_ji_mldE_aVb7s&s=CkYrc8_f6-aqjMChhB4LFczf05BUFV4wIjW-Mvs3dtw&e= )
> and the Jack Audio Connection Kit (https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__jackaudio.org_&d=DwIDAw&c=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA&r=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A&m=cnXMSULf-rJAMD-8jQQEuyEdx7TC5_ji_mldE_aVb7s&s=aSsx5zWjpNusfc0Kc_A4rytUlZOFmvmYs4xGJu35HOs&e= ).
>
> 30 milliseconds (or ~30 feet apart) is the optimal latency for musicians
> to play together and hear and feed off each other in real time.
>
> The above packages seem to solve the distance-apart music playing problem,
> up to a point and within a certain radius.
> It's still constrained by the light speed limit...
Thank you to many who point out that the internet is
bursty, with extra delays for buffering, and that the
HEP network is arrangements on top of that network, not
a separate high speed connection between Europe and North
America.
Indeed, this kind of arrangement would not work with jazz
and improv, with no two performances alike. It would not
work over distances where two-sigma statistical latency
exceeds 30 milliseconds.
But for symphonic orchestras, working from a printed score
under the same director, with practice and perhaps four
/recorded/ rehersals, and some clever software ...
When a latency hit exceeds 30 milliseconds for one of the
performers, feed them an /estimate/ of what the other
performers are doing, based on prior rehersals. That
might lead to an acceptable result. If it doesn't, we
learn something about the musical psychology of realtime
interaction.
The audience is MANY milliseconds away ... perhaps years.
"Fix it in post" as they say in movie production.
Clever improv/jazz artists may learn to work within these
constraints as well. Decades ago, I did some engineering
design for Herbie Hancock - he is a formidable engineer as
well as a world class musician. Herbie designed and added
a gate-array timing controller to a keyboard router I made
for him. Herbie can hear a 1/128th note timing error -
and can imagine hardware that compensates. Herbie was an
undergraduate mechanical engineer (as well as a classical
concert pianist) before jazz took over his life.
Full disclosure - I have terrible hearing, siren-loud
tinnitus, so music doesn't work for me. The enthusiasm
of professional musicians is an acceptable substitute,
as close as I can get to the experience normal music
listeners enjoy.
Imagine how professional scientists can adapt these tools
to their own endeavors - they may invent new ways to look
at the world, and convey those perspectives to others.
95% of the world is deaf to "scientific performance".
Keith
--
Keith Lofstrom [log in to unmask]
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