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February 2021

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From:
Yasha Karant <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Yasha Karant <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Thu, 4 Feb 2021 11:36:03 -0800
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Several comments as a long term RedHat production (pre-Fedora) and then 
EL user -- on laptops, on workstations (including workstations for 
scientific visualisation), and on compute and storage server "farms".

1.  Ubuntu LTS serves essentially the same sector as EL, including SL 
with some caveats concerning the existence of a list such as this.  The 
distrust for Canonical (the for-profit entity behind Ubuntu) because any 
for-profit entity could behave as has IBM RH with the current EL 
situation (debacle to us) is not applicable in so far as Ubuntu is a 
port/repackaging with add-ons from Debian -- if Canonical does an IBM 
RH, one can with relative ease switch to "pure non-profit" Debian. 
Ubuntu, as with RHEL, and SL, has paid employee professional Staff 
supporting the distro (albeit the SL staff mostly were re-packagers of 
the RHEL distro source).

1.1 Conversion for laptops from SL to Ubuntu LTS was fairly 
straightforward; detailed observations available upon request.  As my 
facility mostly (and wisely) is under pandemic shutdown, deployment on 
servers is not yet done.

2.  Reliance upon following the Fermilab/CERN HEP consortia may not be 
feasible, even if Fermilab/CERN internally develop something akin to SL. 
Although (most of) these entities operate upon pubic (government) 
funding, they may not be required to release anything equivalent to SL 
to those outside the consortia.  SL was a boon to the community and 
proven in the crucible of HEP (worldwide consortia).

3.  As has been pointed out, there is no guarantee that IBM RH will 
continue to make RHEL available in executable distro format licensed for 
free for specific "small" users (under the Linux and GPL licenses, my 
understanding is that source must be made available -- but whether such 
source is feasible to build into an executable working distro is a 
separate issue).

3.1 As has been pointed out, the IBM RH tool/s to convert from CentOS 
(not SL) to the "equivalent" RHEL are not working as of the observation 
from that correspondent.

As a practical matter, Ubuntu LTS (and presumably the underlying Debian 
"equivalent") is kept more current than EL in terms of having "current" 
versions of many applications.  Thus, when I needed TexStudio current, 
it could not be built for SL7 -- I have notes from this SL list to that 
effect.

It will remain to be resolved what Fermilab/CERN/HEP will do going 
forward (there may already have been consortia meetings in which the 
matters have been resolved, but the consortia NDAs have prevented the 
announcement as of yet).  In some cases vendor obsolete hardware 
evidently still must be put into use as the various science groups do 
not have the funding to support hardware and personnel costs simply to 
replace everything.  Moreover, such groups may not have the experimental 
schedule (specified scheduled runs at experimental facilities, such as 
an accelerator/detector complex) to deploy (including testing) of new 
hardware systems.

On 2/4/21 10:56 AM, Patrick J. LoPresti wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 4:58 PM Keith Lofstrom <[log in to unmask] 
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>  >
>  > So - who else is contemplating a move to Debian?
> 
> We will be following CERN and Fermilab's lead, whatever that is.
> 
> But the longer we go without knowing, the more uncomfortable we get. 
> Anybody have any inside information on their thinking?
> 
>   - Pat

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