On 11/07/2017 10:09 AM, David Sommerseth wrote:
> On 04/11/17 01:14, ToddAndMargo wrote:
>>
>> I do realize that RHEL is just next to unmaintained code.
>
> Hey, cut the FUD crap please. And this isn't the first time you come
> with such bullshit either.
It is a long running observation and not FUD or bull s***.
>
> RHEL is fully maintained and updated according to their release process.
> Bugs and security issues are fixed during the complete life cycle of
> each major release. That is quite far from "unmaintained code".
> Insisting on running RHEL 4 today is running unmaintained code.
This is true. RH has their own proprieties. One if them is getting
paid for their consulting. The open source model is such. And since
I can not afford to put them on my payroll, I am dead last on
getting anything fixed. (I can barely afford to keep a roof over
my head with this never ending recessions, which has slowly started
to break by has not tricked down to me yet.)
And I did not say "unmaintained code". I said "next to
unmaintained code". There is a difference.
And believe me, calling it "next to unmaintained code" is really,
really being polite. (Astronauts returning through the stratosphere
are constantly being treated to my private commentary. I would
posit that that is the reason for their wide eyes when they
touch down, not the wild ride home.)
> This whining about "it isn't the latest upstream version" is not what
> RHEL is about. And it ignores so much of how RHEL packaging actually
> works. If you want latest versions at all times, you need a bleeding
> edge Linux distro (Arch and Gentoo comes to mind, even Fedora or Ubuntu
> is not as bleeding edge as those). Stop complaining about the blue cars
> of yours being blue.
>
> I do try to have patience and educate where it is appropriate. But the
> patience eventually has its end too. When that end arrives, you just
> end up being ignored.
David,
I do acknowledge your frustration with my observation. It is
not personal.
Let me run down for you why I have tagged EL Linux as "next to
unmaintained".
1) It does not operate on modern C236 small business based server
motherboards. That would be
7.2 not compatible with C236 and RSTe motherboard
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1353423
Reported 2016-07-06 (by me)
And if you read the bug report, you will find that their reason
for NOT fixing the issue is that they do not have the hardware
available DESPITE the fact that I told them who to call, phone
number and all, over at Supermicro to get free hardware.
So, EVEN IF I WANTED TO, I can not use EL Linux on ANY
new C236 based small business server. And I reproduced
the issue on two separate server for them.
Why? Again, because "EL Linux as 'next to unmaintained'".
2) Every night I have to pain painstakingly make sure I manually
exit Osma and doing a special backup before shutting down
my office's workstation/server. This is because there is
a bug in Osmo that does not look for SIGTERM properly
and you risk getting your Contacts and Task wiped clean.
I reported the issue to Osma and Max fixed it nearly instantly.
You can't ask for better responsiveness. I do admire Max
a lot.
Now I did ask Nux! to do a new RPM and he could not.
Want to venture a guess why? Now if Nux!, who is one of
those rare geniuses at this sort of stuff, can not bash his
way through the issue, something is really broken.
(Without Nux! EL Linux would be next to unusable as
a workstation.)
You ever have the experience of find your business' tasks
and contacts missing when you fire up your machine and
can't figure out why it keeps happening? (Good thing I am a
back up whore.) I almost had a heart attack.
Again, because "EL Linux as 'next to unmaintained'".
3) You get you ass made fun of and requests out right
rejected because you are so out of date. The folks over on
NMap's list think you are out of your mind for operating
anything that is so out of date and refuse to help you.
Case in point. Here are two rejections from Simple Scan:
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=789890
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=789892
Thanks for taking the time to report this.
However, you are using a version that is too old and
not supported anymore by GNOME developers. GNOME developers
are no longer working on that version, so unfortunately
there will not be any bug fixes by GNOME developers for
the version that you use.
By upgrading to a newer version of GNOME you could
receive bug fixes and new functionality. You may need
to upgrade your Linux distribution to obtain a newer
version of GNOME.
Please feel free to reopen this bug report if the
problem still occurs with a recent version of GNOME,
or feel free to report this bug in the bug tracking
system of your Linux distribution if your distribution
still supports the version that you are using.
And
We don't have enough volunteer (wo)manpower to test
every single issue against recent versions. So we rely
on volunteer users to report bugs and enhancement requests
for recent versions, sorry...
Keep in mind that I was not reporting a bug, but requesting
an enhancement. I did manage to reopen the bug by creating
a Fedora 27 virtual machine and showing that the issues
involved still existed. And will noticed they refused to
even look themselves.
If you find an issue in a program, it is very unlikely
that the developers will even look at the problem. You
can report it to Red Hat, but it is very unlikely that
they will fix it either, unless you are under contract
with them. That is the way open source's economic
model works.
Again, because "EL Linux as 'next to unmaintained'".
I can do on all day like this digging though all my old bug
reports. If it isn't your scanner not being recognized
OR your printer printing weird OR Libre Office print
off the margins (an out of date cups issue) OR your wife's tables
not being recognized OR the manual pages being wrong because
they are too out of date OR USB 3 crawling along at USB 1 rates,
*it is something else*. (I can dig out all the bug reports on
those for you too, if you wish. Give me a list of which ones.)
The frustration goes on and on and on and on ...
Again, because "EL Linux as 'next to unmaintained'".
I have two C236 based small business server running out
there now. I have not noticed any difference in stability
over EL Linux. But I have noticed a YUGE difference in
frustration trying to work on them.
And it is not that Fedora is without its issues either. This
one was a real doozy!
SATA Hot Swap crashed Fedora 26
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1483279
(I am not sure they will ever be able to repair the above
though as it is an issue with the firmware on the Western
Digital drives involved.)
If I could I would rip this "next to unmaintained" OS off
my server, but I can't as I do not have the finances or
time if I did to do so. EL Linux should never be used as
a workstation, except in the rarest of minor circumstances
(don't expect things to work). I found out the hard way.
So to use your analogy, my blue car has all four of its
wheels. Does your blue car? There is a difference between
aesthetics and functionality.
RH does have its own proprieties. Their target customer is
large businesses, not small businesses and certainly not
consumers. It is about getting their consulting fees.
So they drag their feet and call it stability. They have
to make a living too.
This is the way the open source model works. You want
something fixed, you need to pay for it. It is what it is.
Please do not take my analysis personally. My analysis of EL Linux
is based on years of frustrating experience with it. Again,
I do acknowledge your frustration with my observations. It is
not personal.
If you wish not to assist me with problems in the future, I
will understand. I will miss the friendship and much as the
technical expertise.
Yours,
-T
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