On 07/11/2017 10:38 AM, Konstantin Olchanski wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 09, 2017 at 12:03:02AM -0700, Bruce Ferrell wrote:
>> OK, before the flames start I KNOW it's not normal.


>> an boot, then dance from there.
>>
>> As step zero, I would setup a network-bootable system with NFS-Root,
>> as it is much simpler to tweak the mongrel userland on the NFS server,
>> then reboot; as opposed to rebooting the physical machine between
>> the mongrel os (does not boot, crash) and the stock OS to deit the mongrel image.
>>
>>
>> I know sci 7 has 2.17
>>
> But el7 glibc is old hat, too, if you want new, go Ubuntu.
>
> el6: 2.12
> el7: 2.17
> ubuntu 16.10: 2.24
> ubuntu 17.10: 2.24
> current: 2.25
>
>> systemd is completely unacceptable.
>> I, too, expected the world to end when el7 went with systemd,
>> but it turned out to be more a wimper than a bang:
>>
>> a) systemd is better documented compared to the el6 mongrel mix of SysV and upstart (el5 was pure SysV was much better)
>> b) everything works pretty much as expected and as documented
>> c) syslog works same as before, I can ignore the "this is simpler than grep /var/log/messages" journalcrl crud.
>> d) even on a small machine like RaspberryPi3, systemd does not seem to be any bother, no resource hog.
>> e) of course I do not use any "advanced" systemd functions, no "systemd dns", no "systemd boot", etc.
>>
>> One big downside is "too many binary blobs" that cannot be trivially hacked
>> for special situations.

I've had systemd on running systems almost since the beginning... hence my distaste

>> For example, I was never was able to convince systemd to boot in the presense
>> of a degraded BTRFS filesystem. One of the binary blobs "did not want to do it",
>> waited forever for who knows what and that was it. If it all were shell scripts, it would
>> have been a 5 minute hatchet job to get past this problem.
I had a non-systemd systemd system at one time... It wouldn't boot a degraded btrfs either.  That's another nasty
> Luckily some people want to have nothing to do with all this, so
> watch the systemd-free fork of Debian, watch the BSDs and watch the direction
> of "embedded linux" (people who build IoT machines count every byte of ram,
> every milliwatt of power love systemd? yea, right).

Yeah,  Debian people have their breed of odd, as do those in the BSD tribe.

I could go on, and on and on... But won't.

Bruce