On 10/04/17 23:49, O'Neal, Miles wrote:
> There are days I sort of wonder whether the Linux development crews
> haven't been infiltrated by people trying to drive us into the OSX or
> Windows camps.

That is very unfair.  To my knowledge, there exists no "Linux product
management department" which sets the path forward for how any Linux
distribution should go.

A lot of the new stuff happens in many distributions before it hits the
enterprise Linux distributions - such as SL.  For RHEL and SL that means
Fedora.  For SUSE Linux that means openSUSE.  For Debian, that's a a bit
different story, as they have their unstable branch and is not a company
compared to Red Hat or SUSE.  And many of these package maintainers and
developers in distributions works with a broad range of upstream
communities and projects.

The result is that if someone feels something could be improved, they
start doing that inside the relevant upstream project involved - or they
create their own new upstream project.  *Then* the various upstream
projects and later on Linux distros decides to include these
improvements.  And then it hits the enterprise Linux distributions.

So claiming that "Linux development crews" are infiltrated to make Linux
s**k is just so wrong on every level.  First of all there exists no
"Linux development crew" at any level, the development work is
completely distributed and decentralized.  This is the kind of silly
remarks which actually pays no respect to all the efforts and good faith
provided by many people in many places.  Claiming those people are
infiltrators is just beyond any reasonable limits of fairness.

If you dislike something ... Grab developers responsible for your
dissatisfaction in IRC, join the mailing lists, go to conferences where
you can meet these persons face to face or otherwise reach out the
proper people directly.  *That way* Linux can truly be improved, by
users actually giving real feedback to the persons who can do something
about it.  Too much for you?  Get a Red Hat subscription and "outsource"
that work through the Red Hat support channels.

And I encourage all of you to pay attention to the devconf.cz conference
(lots of videos with past presentations on youtube too).  That does have
a lot of focus on Fedora and RHEL, which is most relevant for SL.  There
probably exists many other conferences too, where the heading of the
various projects included in Linux distributions is presented.  And *do*
provide feedback to those giving talks, that way things may improve.
But of course, it is up to the developers to decide if to change or not,
based upon how many gives feedback pointing in the same direction.

Ranting about the direction of "Linux" on a distribution ML which
basically just ships what RHEL ships is just completely missing the
mark.  It is a complete misunderstanding of what kind of distribution
Scientific Linux is.  And then giving a remark so general it carries no
argument of _what_ is wrong *and* _how_ you see it could be fixed ...
How can that improve things?

</rant>


-- 
kind regards,

David Sommerseth


> On 04/10/2017 04:39 PM, Ken Teh wrote:
>> On 04/10/2017 10:59 AM, Tom H wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> The lead NM developer's replied to you on fedora-devel@ or
>>> fedora-user@ in the past that he and his fellow NM developers have
>>> worked hard to add to NM configuration options for complex server
>>> setups as well as a cli tool for managing settings. Sadly, NM seems to
>>> be a project that can do nothing right in the eyes of its users even
>>> though it's left the flakiness of its early years behind.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I'm not sure why I'm jumping into the fray but this paragraph struck
>> me as to exactly why network manager is anathema to so many of us. 
>> Even if it is not as flaky as it used to be.
>>
>> I'm living with it but I can't you the number of times  nmcli and
>> firewall-cmd have made my blood pressure go up.   The latter is even
>> worse with its option style subcommands and is near impossible to
>> remember choices.  Is it  list-all, zone-get-info,  zone-list-all?   Wtf?
> 
> 
> -- 
> Miles O'Neal
> CAD Systems Engineer
> Cirrus Logic | cirrus.com | 1.512.851.4659